Are you having enough sales conversations with Brook McCarthy

We’re in a wild time in the world of business where everyone is telling you to automate, leverage and live the laptop lifestyle.

Social media has allowed us, business goers, to become ultra lazy when it comes to marketing and sales conversions. Before social media was the wild big wilderbeast of marketing that it is today, I would hype people up and give them tools and hints to have effective sales conversations with potential customers and clients. 

It feels like it’s kind of unheard of today to get on the phone, on zoom or in front of a real-life human to pitch them your offers. Yet, it’s highly effective, and with a few clever tricks up your sleeve (not sleazy tricks), you need to get in front of a whole lot fewer people to make a sale. 

Sometimes we forget that old-school marketing and sales, like having actual sales conversations, are hugely effective for making money. With the right marketing before a sales conversation, your potential customer or client has usually decided before you even need to pitch them. 

So, today in the spirit of doing stuff that has long been forgotten by modern marketing yet can seed a business with more customers or clients than they could dream of… let’s talk to my friend and accountability buddy, Brooke McCarthy. 

Brooke is a business and marketing trainer and has been around for as long as I have in business, well over a decade. She’s very much about just getting in and doing the work, stop talking about it, which is portably why we get along so well!

Enjoy today’s chat with Brook.

Key points

• How to reach out to people with no hidden agenda
• Why having sales conversations is vital to your business growth
• Avoiding the awkwardness by being upfront with your intentions 
• Focusing too much on being visible and not enough on connection

Where to find Brooke

Brook's 'Life's a Pitch!' challenge: https://www.hustleandheart.com.au/pitch
Download Brook's free 'Minimum Viable Marketing Plan™': https://www.hustleandheart.com.au/marketing-plan
Brook's website: https://www.hustleandheart.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brookmccarthy/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brook_McCarthy
Instagram: https://instagram.com/brookmccarthy
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brookmccarthy

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Transcript

Melanie: 0:25

Welcome back profit lovers sales conversations, are you having enough of them? If you're not someone who needs to have sales conversations in your business, then still keep listening because we're not talking just about sales conversations in today's episode, although that is the main theme. We're also going to be talking about just building personal connections with other living breathing humans. We are in a wild time in the world of business where everyone is telling you to automate and leverage your time and live the laptop lifestyle, including me, will the automate and leverage your time benefit show a laptop lifestyle, not so much social media has allowed us business goers to become Ultra lazy when it comes to marketing and sales conversations before social media? Before the big wild will debased of marketing that it is today, I would give people the tools and the skills and hints and tricks to have highly effective sales conversations with potential customers or clients. And it feels like it's kind of unheard of today, to get on the phone or on a zoom call or in front of their real life human to pitch them your offers. Yet it's highly effective. And with a few clever tricks up your sleeve, nothing weird, nothing sleazy. You need to get in front of a whole lot less people to make a sale. When I started in business, I spent my days doing free coaching sessions. And they were followed up with a proposal, which was a sales conversation. Is it my personal favorite way to sell? Heck no. But it got me started really fast. When I had no money to invest in marketing, and I had a whole lot of time on my hands. Sometimes we forget that these old school marketing and sales techniques, like having actual sales conversations is hugely effective for making money. And can I also add that with the right marketing before a sales conversation, your potential customer or client has usually made the decision before you even get on a call or in front of them to pitch them. I rarely get requests for a 15 minute chat about coaching with me, from people who don't already know of me, my website is a smorgasbord of profit loving proof that I have a clue about business, I even display my prices, because I do so much pre work to build confidence and dispel any misgivings somebody might have about working with me. So today in the spirit of doing stuff that has long been forgotten in modern marketing, yet can see to business with more customers or clients than they could ever dream of. Let's talk to my friend. And my accountability buddy, Brooke McCarthy. Brooke is a business and marketing trainer who's been around for even longer than I have, I think so over a decade, she's very much about just getting in and doing the freakin work. Stop talking about it get in and actually do it, which is probably why I get along so well with her. Enjoy today's chat with Brooke. And as I mentioned, even if you're not bringing in sales conversations into your business, if they're not a part of your sales process, this is really going to help you get out there and start to connect with other humans to start to build your posse of business buddies to start to really build some key important relationships in business. I've got another friend today. Hi, Brooke. Hi, how are you going? I'm good. It's weird talking to you with a recorder because we're gonna have to like edit ourselves.

Unknown: 4:20

We'll No swearing off and ready, aren't we? So Brooke, main reason that I wanted to talk to you today as my profit lovers, podcast listeners know, I like to have people on where I can talk about my business as well. And where profit lovers really will date here all the time, that my business certainly isn't perfect. And there's things that I definitely struggle with. And one of those things, as you know, is I like to be left alone in my office. And I'm not great at connecting with people. And I actually can't remember how you and I connected. Do you remember?

Brooke: 5:03

I'm pretty sure I reached out to you. It wasn't me, that's for sure. I think I heard you I know I heard you on the clear pills get paid podcast. And I was just like, oh, this I liked the sound of this woman and I reached out I think it was on Instagram perhaps and said hi. That was the beginning years ago now. Oh, yeah, no,

Melanie: 5:26

isn't that it's that simple, isn't it? Someone? That person sounds interesting. I'm going to send them a message and connect with them. And if it goes further than that, just a bit like, business Tinder, is it?

Brooke: 5:44

Well, yeah, I mean, it can feel a little bit like business Tinder, if you're self conscious about it. But, you know, Tinder is the last thing on my mind.

Melanie: 5:56

Good analogy, but we sparked up a little, I guess, online friendship. And then we took it to the next level and dated faced person, which is also very, very weird. But it's something that I find that you're incredibly good at and that I am not good at, is building a network of connections.

Brooke: 6:21

So strange. It's i You're not the first person that has pointed this out to me. And I continue to find it baffling, because I think of myself as quite socially awkward. And certainly in high school, which is the pinnacle of this kind of stuff. Right? I was definitely not amongst the cool crowd. I was not a joiner. I'd never played team sports. I didn't do debating. There was next to no extracurricular

Unknown: 6:49

involved in that quite shocking.

Brooke: 6:52

Yeah, I was a bit of a rebel looking for a cause, I think. But yeah, I've always kind of struggled, I think to be a joiner, I, you know, I'd feel more like a loner than, than a networker, that's for sure.

Melanie: 7:09

I find you very, very proactive and very well connected. Interesting how we see ourselves as compared to how other people see us. Right? So sales conversations, is something that you and I talk a lot about when we're so broken, I will often talk about, obviously, nothing that's private or confidential, but will often talk about interactions we've had with people. We refer refer clients, if it's not a good fit. For me, it might be for Brooke Brooke has sent me clients that were not the best fit for her. And so we also in that talk a lot about sales conversations. I am really happy that at this point in my business, I don't have a lot of sales conversations. I did have to in the beginning to light the fire. Yeah. Tell me about your thoughts on women in business and sales conversations. We're not having enough one to one right to rely on? Yeah, yeah,

Brooke: 8:12

look, I do a lot in my business, I have a great diversity of the training and the coaching that I offer, which I love. And part of what I do is I teach group courses on how to start a business and how to start a side gig. And a huge part of that is networking and reaching out and pitching and introducing yourself to strangers. And I also don't think that it's something that you need to or that you should give up once your business is established. Because there is no more effective and efficient way of proactively growing your business in the direction that you want to grow it in. And for a lot of people, they will listen to me and they will not alone. And they will download my free laughs of pitch scripts. And they'll read them and they'll say that sounds like a good idea. And then they'll completely disregard and effectively hide from people by you know, starting an Instagram channel or starting on LinkedIn. And then wondering why they're not getting any sales. And, you know, there is something unavoidable about it, I believe. And I'm so grateful that when I started 14 years ago, I had a conversation with my partner had a few conversations, I was like, help me I don't know what I'm doing. And he had a background in sales. He has a background in sales, he works in sales. And he said to me, right, how much do you want to earn? Okay, let's break that down per month, right? You need to get on the phone, you need to meet people you need to introduce yourself. And because he was the first influence that I had as a brand new business owner, I was like, oh, okay, sure. Right. I can do that.

Melanie: 10:02

That's Yes. And it is that simple and that complicated. It's, it's interesting that you say that a lot of the times when I'll talk to somebody who's been in business for 10 plus years, they will say to me, my business used to be really good. I used to have all of these clients or all of these customers. And then over the past few years at You know, it's died down. And one of the first questions I ask them is, what were you doing then? You're not doing now? Right? There's something has changed, right? Yeah. And what they did back then was they went out, met people and talk to people and had conversations with people, what they're doing now is being solely reliant on very passive marketing. I don't even let my clients or my members club members call, like social media marketing. It's visibility, visibility, and it's a starting point for connection. But it's not it often doesn't go any deeper than that were sales conversations. And if you think about the conversion rate, we have to show up in the news in the so called a newsfeed. Am I getting older, my adult in the, in the feeds of social media 1000 people for one person to take an action that could lead to a sale, whereas you've probably only got to speak one to one to 10 people. So that same impact? Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Brooke: 11:34

And, you know, this is what I did for 10 years ago. And this is what I continue to do, is to reach out to people, and sometimes I'm reaching out to people such as you. But you know, I had no agenda apart from saying, Hi, Melanie, you look cool, I think we'd get along. And I really 100% believe in the power of doing that, to approach somebody with absolutely no agenda, just because you think they're interesting, and you'd like to get to know them further. And this is like a life skill that we have as toddlers and young children that we lose as we get older. And it is a crying shame, for multitude of reasons, not least of which is that running your own business is massively stressful. And you need people who get it, you need people who are self employed, you need friends, like yourself, you know, where I could call you up and go dump on you. And not only would you sympathize, but you'd understand

Melanie: 12:39

so many of those conversations, and so many when I don't really remember you being Debbie Downer too often. But I certainly remember I went through a period of just being like, and being just Debbie Downer. You need that. Yeah. And that was, I think, probably, I feel like, I have no concept of time anymore. But it was probably four years ago. Now. I lacked community. Big time I left my own personal network. Two of my personal network were back in full time work. And I was kind of like this little lone soldier just out of the battlefields, and I had no one to connect with. And it really affected my mental health

Brooke: 13:25

100% 100%. And your mental health is reflected in your profit loss statement. Correct? Yeah.

Melanie: 13:32

Yeah, just sometimes having that one conversation, just, you know, a 40 minute conversation, not that we ever have 40 minute conversations ended up being two or three hours with cocktails involved. Having that one conversation can be enough. Yeah, to push you out of that hump, a hump that would have taken you weeks or even months to get yourself out of

Brooke: 13:51

Yeah. 100% 100%. And look, that's one of the things that this is one of the metrics in my business that I measure myself against, is how quickly can I get myself out of that. And I know, you know, this sense of progress that I get, and the sense of achievement and self satisfaction that results from that is that, you know, eight years ago, six years ago, it took me a lot longer to get over, you know, a bad a setback, a mistake problem. Whereas nowadays, it's a hell of a lot quicker. And so that's one of the key metrics that I'm using to measure in my business. Because you know, it does affect your bank balance, it affects your happiness, which is way more, you know, valuable. But it definitely affects your decision making ability and your bank balance. So you know, it's crucial that that is one of the things that we take serious we take we take our resourcefulness and our resilience seriously.

Melanie: 14:47

It's that toddler analogy that you just had is so true, right? Toddlers just approach with no agenda. Yeah, they just want to make a friend have a conversation. Yeah, if they hit it off and want to share the sandpit together, and it can be that simple. It doesn't need to be that any more complicated than that. Then as adults, we just put all of these extra layers on, don't we? Well, if they don't like me, what if they think I'm an idiot? What if they're gonna judge me? What if we're not a good fit? What if it's awkward

Brooke: 15:16

100% You know, like, I think also, we learn to understand ourselves through the lens of other people, and we learn And to understand the parts of us that are charming and fascinating and interesting, and the parts of us that are a little bit rough, and you know, not so appealing. You know, like, I think one thing that I do, and this is when I said I was socially awkward, one of my weird tendencies is if I'm feeling anxious in a social situation. And I think I've spoken about this with, you know, this has happened with a few people who I've met, I've just jumped straight over the small talk and attempted to, you know, fast forward into the intimacy by revealing some vulnerable story about myself, you know, like some kind of boundaries. And you You told me a

Melanie: 16:10

story that was quite shocking, very early on. And yet, I think maybe that's why we got on because I am not necessarily awkward with small talk. It's just that I don't have any. I don't care for it anymore. I don't want to do it. I don't want to go to networking events and have a lot of small, less conversations. I don't. Yeah. And that a difficult way to connect. So when you told me that I was like, Okay, here we go. And then I probably told you an equally horrifying childhood story in return, I'm sure. Oh, so funny.

Brooke: 16:45

So funny. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, like, I think that willingness to have those awkward moments is part and parcel of, you know, talking about money talking about sales. And I, you know, and I should also say that, you know, when I'm talking about sales conversations, I think there needs to be clear consent on both parties, like people need to appreciate that they're entering into a sales conversation, and that they're not, you know, what is that bait and switch thing. You know, it's kind of like you thinking signing up for freebie, or you think you're just having a random conversation with somebody, and all of a sudden, they come in sideways with some kind of pitch, and you're kind of feeling awkward. And you're like, what, you know, I'm not, I'm not prepared for this, this is not what I want. So I'm a big fan of making it really clear, like, I don't, you know, and back to speaking to strangers, introducing yourself to strangers. I don't think you lose when you're direct. I think you've gained a lot by being direct. Certainly, that's been my experience. And not everybody's going to love you and not everybody's going to buy from you. And that's completely 100%. Okay, I say no, to more people on sales conversations than I say yes to. Because, you know, part and parcel of this, and I'm sure I don't need to convince you of this. It's not about winning the sale at all costs. That is not what we're trying to do here. You know, that leads to disaster on a multitude of levels. Yeah,

Melanie: 18:21

that yeah, that's a business where you just work with people who are a poor fit. And my gosh, there is nothing me that is is more frustrating or more energy, sapping

Brooke: 18:32

100% 100%. So you know, one thing I like to do, for example, is I use acuity scheduling, and I will have an appointment type that says is the hustle and Heart program for you. Or let's see if we can work together. Because I want to make it really clear and really obvious. And sometimes in the questions, the preliminary questions before they get on the call, I'll ask them, have you read the sales page, because, again, direct communication, I love a good sales page, because it spells it all out. It includes the price that includes the terms and conditions. And I want people to have read the sales page, done some prep work, know what they're entering into, before we even say hello to each other.

Melanie: 19:17

Yeah, I have a question and answers kind of form on my website. I don't want to be. And it's interesting, because it's more about me not wanting to be in a weird, awkward, uncomfortable conversation with somebody who hasn't read a sales page where I'm going to have to explain in detail who I am what I do in pricing. Yeah, that to me is a super awkward way of having any kind of conversation. But you can you if you sort of tell people what they're in for. And everybody's clear, everybody's entering into a consensual conversation does take so much of the anxiety out of it. And I do think that a lot of what's being taught by the bro marketers is lured people on, yeah, and then upsell them into a massive package. I am in somebody's sales funnel at the moment. It was somebody and I'll be mindful of what I say here on tell you when we get and I purchased an offer Like a micro offer around a particular topic, knowing that it was going to lead me through their sales funnel because they had interest in their more High Level Mastermind. In the time from purchasing that offer, I have had at least 30 emails, oh, my God. And I'm talking for five days. Like it's a whole Wow. It's crazy. And they're constantly trying to get me on a call. Yeah, number one, the calls in Australia are at 4am. Yeah. And they've done no kind of work to figure out where I am in this country. And, you know, get somebody on this side of the, the globe to accommodate that. But also, it's so aggressive, and it's all about, it seems like it's going to be a conversation about me growing my business. But because of the aggressiveness, I'm well aware that it's not going to be that at all, trying to be a sales pitch into their high level program. I don't want to be on that call. No, I don't want to convince me to join. And I don't want to join a program where that's the kind of marketing tactic you use, because that's what you're going to teach me

Brooke: 21:36

100%. And look, it's it's such a silly, I was bet, say stupid, and then that's true, really. It's such a short sighted and idiotic, how's that idiotic tactic, because you're going to attract two types of people, you're going to attract people who kind of go with the flow, purchase the thing and then feel a great deal of buyer's remorse and resentment and bitterness towards it, and they're either going to be completely disengaged. And even more better, or worse, they're going to be engaged and be bringing a really bad mood along with them. Or secondly, you're gonna be attracting people who are not critical thinkers, who are looking for a strong personality to give away all their responsibility to and make decisions on their behalf. And like, I don't want those people, I don't want the second group anymore.

Melanie: 22:28

I don't want either of those, either. I don't want those. And if that means that I never get to claim multimillion dollar business, I'm good with that. Because that's a for me a really gross way to spend your day, if that's your thing, go for it, I if that's if that's what floats your boat. And if that's what business is to you, then more power to you go for it. Not not for me. And I would say probably not for my profit lovers 100. But I know them pretty well by this point. And I think that that would just be so cringe worthy. I have had quite a few clients, you and I have talked about this without recording devices involved about a number of clients that I get from a coach that's out there, that promises like really, really big, huge big promises about how your business will be better. And then teachers a very fixed formula also puts the prices up dramatically. I'm talking, you know, if you had a$2,000 offer this particular coaching process turns that into a 20 to $25,000 offer. And then what I get is the people who've been through that come back to me and say I've completely destroyed my business. I was getting sales at 2000. But I did want to grow. And I've put this process in and now I have to get on sales calls. And I have to pitch 10 people a week. And I'm on the sales calls, and I'm just frozen. Yeah, because the sales call process is so inorganic, to who they are.

Brooke: 24:04

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it doesn't, it makes absolutely no sense yet again, because if something is not natural to you, it's not aligned with your values. It's not in line with your personality and your communication strengths. Number one, it's not going to work. Or number two, you're not going to do it, you know, you're going to do it for a week, maybe, you know, a month if you're lucky. And it's going to drop off. And that that makes no sense. You know, what is the point of doing these things that you don't understand you don't like you don't want to do like, not just I'm a little bit scared of this. But I every cell in my body is screaming, this is a bad idea. You know, it doesn't make any sense. It's not sustainable, and it's not going to work.

Melanie: 24:48

There has to be a middle ground where you have to do uncomfortable things. That that in some way. Respect who you are as a person and what your values are. You still have to do the uncomfortable things, but it doesn't have to be zero to 100.

Brooke: 25:01

Can we talk about the uncomfortable conversations? Very, oh my God, I've had someone uncomfortable, oh my god. So like I said, I love making sure there's consent. I love making sure that people understand that they're entering into a sales conversation and that they you know, filling out that acuity form and booking them selves into my calendar, knowing that we're going to be talking about, you know, purchasing or working together. And, of course, because humans are humans, you know, it's not always a walk in the park. And, you know, I think that uncomfortable conversations come with the territory. The question is, as we've discussed before, many times, you know, the question is designed to help educate people, and to make sure that you've got some boundaries, and it's clear what the expectations are. But then, you know, sometimes you get on a call with somebody, or sometimes I've gotten on a call with somebody, and I'm like, Okay, this is not going well, at all. And in one instance, that I remember, it was a New Yorker, and the conversation went for an hour, which was totally my fault. I should have stopped the conversation after about half an hour. But I do have a fascination. I do have a morbid fascination sometimes. And at one point, the conversation got so awkward, I said to her, this conversation is quite awkward right now it feels, you know, quite tense. And that's a really useful thing, because a lot of us when there's an elephant in the room, rather than just point out the elephant and say, Oh, look, you know, we seem to disagree, or we seem to have some problems. You know, a lot of people just bury their head in the sand and pretend or let's just pretend the elephant isn't there. And then the elephant won't be a big deal. But that I find the opposite is true.

Unknown: 27:06

What the elephant was,

Brooke: 27:08

look, to tell you the truth. I don't even I don't even think it was one thing. Exactly. It's just that the woman brought an energy that she was interviewing me that I was one amongst many, which I really don't like, I don't find.

Melanie: 27:27

Yeah, I provide a new provide so much free content. Yeah, help people make good decisions. And that that conversation is really, can I help you? Yeah, solve the problems that you're looking to solve? Am I fit, but I don't want to be interviewed.

Brooke: 27:47

100% 100% And you know, what else? Melanie, it's not classy, and classy is one of my values, you know, I want I want to be classy, and I want to attract classy people. And I would never

Unknown: 28:00

do, I would have friends that

Brooke: 28:05

I would never do that. Like, you know, I would never treat somebody like that, and make them feel less than and make them feel like I was in charge and kind of throw my weight around. That's not how I am in the world. And, you know, that's, that's I expect the same from you know, people around me a co

Melanie: 28:21

working relationship then either, right? Because we're both on, where I'm not here to take over your business and future business. What this is, is a co working relationship where, you know, we work together to create whatever it is that you're wanting to create. Where's that intangible? Yeah, as you're going to work for me. coaching process works,

Brooke: 28:44

you made an excellent point there, which is that, you know, it's the power dynamics. And what should be you know, what is ideal for for us is that we have two mutually consenting adults who are equal and respectful of each other, that we do not have some weird power dynamic, where the coach or the teacher or the trainer is on some pedestal or the other way around that because the client is paying, the client has a big whip. Like, that's not how it works. That's not what we're doing.

Melanie: 29:17

That's not a healthy coaching, a healthy relationship and most service providers.

Brooke: 29:22

But the other thing I should add, that made this an awkward conversation is a complete unwillingness to be vulnerable. And, you know, again, I don't think this has to do with business I don't think this has to do with money or this I think this has to do with human dynamics. And you know, much as we were talking about earlier, where my awkwardness to shortcut the small talk and jump straight into the vulnerable vulnerability, you know, we need to be vulnerable, we need to be willing to be vulnerable with each other, if we are to have any kind of intimacy or understanding of each other. And certainly, I know hand on heart that I never ever want to make people feel less than I am never, you know, it is completely ineffective and idiotic for me to try and guilt or shame. A client, you know, into feeling bad like that serves no purpose. No, yeah. So you know, that was not what I was giving out. But I Think for a lot of people, and especially for people who've been in business for a while, like for 10 years or longer. There's a lot of trauma, there's a lot of disappointments, there's a lot of baggage, there's a lot of shifts, that kind of needs to be gently lovingly peeled way, in order for real progress to happen. Yeah. And you know, a part of that is this willingness to find the psychologically safe space with a coach with a group and to, you know, to be vulnerable and to share and to mourn. And then to move on. Yeah,

Melanie: 31:04

I have had very few really awkward conversations in the later part of my business journey, when I became a lot clearer on who I am and what I do and what I don't do. But there, there has been times where I have had to say, this is not a good fit. It just isn't, we are not going to work well together. It's better to be upfront. And you and I have had conversations to where we've said, I've taken on a client, I knew that I shouldn't. Yeah, this is you know how that client sort of ended up? Can you talk to me about life's a pitch? Because I don't think of when I hear the word pitch, I want to crawl into a hole and bury myself? Because it makes me feel physically unwell.

Brooke: 31:58

Yeah, well, it's, again, such a funny thing, because, you know, it is really just introducing yourself to strangers. And you know, I do this on the regular I do this all the time. And it's, you know, a lot of it is just the very first conversation I'll have. So I'll give you a real life example, about a month ago, I sent an email to a generic email address, it was an organization that I am embarrassed to tell you, I have been eyeing for about six years, thinking, Oh, that looks really interesting. I'd really like to work with them. And for some reason, the stars aligned and I finally sent them a single email, it was maybe three sentences, saying, Hi, you know, this is me, this is what I do. I'd love to perhaps talk about the possibility of working together. And I got a response. And I am now doing the first piece of work within a month of that email being sent. And it was, it didn't, it doesn't feel sleazy to me, it doesn't feel pushy. It doesn't feel anything. It's just Hello, here I am. And I think, you know, back to the conversation we were having about Instagram and people hoping to build their businesses through social media. I think we all suffer under this illusion that we're more visible than we think, than we actually are that everybody's looking at us. Everybody's laughing at us. Everybody thinks we're enough enough. And the reality is, most of us, you know, a completely invisible. Nobody knows us. Nobody's watching us, everybody's too busy worrying about themselves. And how is anyone going to do business with you? If they don't even know who you are? Yeah. So you know, like, that's, that's kind of a really fundamental thing. Once you can grasp that, it's like, you know, what, I'm in this little bubble, looking at all these people getting intimidated by all these people, when actually there's a massive world of billions of people out there who,

Melanie: 33:58

you know, there's someone that says come to mind, who I know is very, very good at what they do, the information they have is great, very, can be incredibly impactful, or her potential market. I know that their business is very stagnant and could be a huge business. But this person sits wholly and solely on social. And if they would just, you know, keep doing the socials for sure. But add a layer on top of that personal connection. She's in a very niche industry. She'd have a massive business. I just I know it, but she won't. She wouldn't have those personal conversations. Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, when I can't want it for her obviously. Tough, right. Like you just, you can see the potential of somebody. But yeah, it's sitting on social media is not always going to do it for you.

Brooke: 34:59

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. And you know, the the other thing that's worth reminding yourself is all of the times that you have done the brave thing, you have done the thing that makes you feel uncomfortable, and it's turned out in your favor. And I think we don't do that nearly enough. Like we don't take the time to reflect back. I have a meditation that I'd take my clients through called banking confidence. And it's this, this practice of reflecting back on the fabulous things that you've done, and how it's made you feel, and really kind of doing this in a very deliberate, repetitive manner. In the same way that we lay in bed at night and go, Oh, God, I shouldn't have said that thing. And oh, God, you know, this client mustn't like me because they haven't responded to my email, and oh, my God, that other person must think I'm enough enough. Like, why don't we sit and go? Wow. You know, I thought I was somebody who was bad at talking to strangers. I thought I was somebody who was socially awkward, awkward. But I've introduced myself to Melanie. And several years later, she's a great friend, you know? And isn't that awesome? And maybe my perception of myself, my identity as socially awkward, is not true is not an accurate representation of who I am now.

Melanie: 36:19

Well, that sounds all very deep and emotional, and once more makes me very uncomfortable. Because it's not human nature. Right? Yeah. Human nature to slide into what I'm not not what I am. And we just have a quick talk about this difference between when you think you're marketing, and you're really not that you and I have talked about this, this concept of your marketing, but you're not actively seeking deeper conversations with people? Yeah,

Brooke: 36:54

yeah, yeah. I think there's two types. Like, generally speaking, broadly speaking, there's two types of people two types of business owners, there's those that are really good at nurturing community. And they're often fantastic thinkers, they've often got very interesting approaches or opinions on things. And they're great at bringing up making people feel that they know them, and they like them. And they trust them, even though they've never met. And they can build massive social media communities, but oftentimes, they're missing the sales piece, they're missing the ability to make an offer, and to price it properly, so that they're actually going to profit. And to do this in a regular way, so that they're creating a profitable, you know, positive cash flow friendly business. So that's, that's one group of people. And I think, you know, people's numbers on social media, which is the most visible part of somebody else's business, you know, and it's not an accurate reflection at all into people's bank accounts. But then the second group of people are the people who don't get content marketing don't understand why you'd give away so much information, why you'd give away your gold, who, you know, really aren't great at marketing, or, you know, do it in a very offer heavy way. They're always asking, you know, they're always pitching, they're always making offers, but they're not giving away, you know, they're not showcasing their expertise. They're not showcasing their work. They're not showcasing their thinking. They're just all about the numbers and the sales. And if you could just take a little from Column A and a little, combine them. This is when you've got a winning combo.

Melanie: 38:44

Yeah. I love that. So life's a pitch that is one of your offers. Yeah. Well, actually,

Brooke: 38:51

it's a free challenge, which it is, but I am about to turn it into a paid thing. Would you like to know why?

Melanie: 39:03

I think I already know why. But I'm gonna let you explain my

Brooke: 39:08

thought. Because really, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how brilliant your thing is, you know, whatever it is that you're doing, if people don't engage with it, and use it, it's all rather pointless now. So whether you it's free and you give it away, or whether it's paid and you sell it, you've got to get people to use it. And especially in training, especially in coaching, right? Because you know, it's very different from done for you services where I design your website, or I write you some sales copy, and I give it to you, job done. When you're training and coaching, you know, 95% of your skill is to engage and motivate and get people to motivate themselves to actually do the thing that's going to get them the results. So you know, it can be extremely frustrating. You know, as we've already discussed, and with the lives of pitch, people would read the scripts that join the Facebook group and listen to the audios and say that sounds like a good idea. I can see how that will work. Oh, yes, very good. Very good. Did you press send on the email? I can't make it any easier for you. I've given you the whole script. I've walked you through it. I've addressed the barriers and the inhibitions. Did you press it? No, I haven't precedent. Yes, and And money is very motivating, you know, when you are paying him something to lose 100%. And I know that for myself, I see that in myself every day, and I absolutely, definitely see it in my clients. So if I need to charge in order for it to get people to press End, then I have absolutely no qualms with that.

Melanie: 40:46

Yep. It's that's an Yeah, it's exactly what I thought that you were charging for it. Because charging does get people to take action. It's the same reason that the plan and track ultimate now exists, like you can have the free version. But if you really want to get stuff done, you're going to need to put some money. This and the example I was giving you a little bit earlier about being bombarded with those sales pitch emails. Yeah. Because I paid for that micro offer that through probably three quarters of it. I've not paid for it. Because I do really want to get something out of this. Yeah, I have not paid for it. To be honest, I probably would never have logged in.

Brooke: 41:29

But the other thing, too, is, I mean, I think it's important to consider what you put out there in the world. And the price tag is important, you know, for reasons that we just talked about. But in addition to that, you can really undermine your credibility if you putting crap out there in the world. So case in point I was looking at, I was watching a particular business thinking I'd like to engage you, you look interesting, you look, you know, you look intelligent, I think you're saying some interesting stuff. And they had offers that were like 2000 3000. And then I find the $37 offer on the Facebook ad and I buy the $37 offer. I'm still getting emails because it's being released over time information has been released every month. I've barely scratched the surface of it, because the first piece that I looked at, I was like, this is totally substandard. And it doesn't matter that I paid $37 for it. You know, it's not the point, like put stuff out that you're proud of. Yeah, and this is a big part of marketing and sales. You know, reflect on what you're doing and put some goddamn quality into it. So that you feel not just proud of it, but you feel compelled to share it with people.

Melanie: 42:48

Maybe they are proud of it though, right? Maybe they do think it's enough and this is the conversation I often have with because the profit lovers tend to be more on the introverted side and tend not to market themselves and constantly saying every time you fail to market yourself and this is true for me as well very true for me in my business every time you fail to market yourself and the amazing content and change that you can offer somebody else who thinks their stuff is good but you know is really crap. He's really good at marketing is making your customer or clients dollars yeah customer or clients getting a substandard solution right now because you couldn't you didn't put yourself out there you didn't show them that there was a better alternative. So people who can be shit at what it is that they offer but great Arthur's

Brooke: 43:41

100% Yeah 100% And I think there's a trap here as well because conscientious people who you know, I attract you attract conscientious business owners are they tend to be deep thinkers, they tend to be critical thinkers, they tend to be incredibly hard on themselves. They tend to be highly conscientious and they mistake that sometimes with overwork, overthinking over delivering, you know, and they, they, they miss the point that the thing has no value until it's out in the hands of the client of the pain client. The thing that you've created might be brilliant, but it has no value and no purpose unless it's actually out there in the world being used and engaged with by paying clients. So what the hell is the point otherwise because you're just amusing yourself, you know, hanging hanging out in your in your office making stuff that never sees the light of day.

Unknown: 44:42

Ouch.

Brooke: 44:46

Like, personally like what you were talking about before, personally, I found that hugely motivating, I love going on on YouTube and finding some twit who's been around for 2.5 minutes and it's just talking shit and thinking that shit doesn't stink, and you know, charging excellent money for it and I look at that and I get really pissed off. And then I get really motivated.

Melanie: 45:09

You know, that's, I'm laughing along with this, but actually that's how Memphis coppers go gone. Was to the offer that it is it was $97 a month that you know, and you could stay for as little as long as you wanted. And if you stay for a year, it's Only equating to, you know, $1,000 or, you know, like now member's club is four months, it's a lot more compressed. And it's, you know, starting at 2750. But the, you know, goal is that it'll be within the next few years a$5,000. Program, or because, yeah, I was like, Oh, look at the number of people who are charging two to three times what I am, and I know the quality of their content. Yeah. And so, you know, I proved my point did know, when you don't market yourself, the best goodies aren't out there. When we're all sitting around perfecting our goodies, and marketing ourselves. Yeah, we need to wrap it up my love.

Unknown: 46:05

I could keep going.

Melanie: 46:08

I'm gonna link all of your goodies below. But life's I'll make sure that I put a link. It is something that I think most business owners really need in their arsenal is this ability to put yourself in front of the right people, no matter what your product offering is. I know we've talked more heavily on sort of the coaching or consulting but I'm from a wholesale background, place background and in that product base, if you're going to sit around and wait for retailers to come to you to want to stock your products, they saw you on social media. Me waiting a freakin long time. Yeah, this life's a pitch offer is a good investment for any business owner. And I'll talk to you off camera soon without the filters. Cool. Thanks for joining us, Brooke.

Unknown: 46:57

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Melanie: 47:00

Hopefully, that conversation with Brooke has opened your eyes a little to the potential in your business to get out and connect with real life humans. I have included links to find Brooke in the show notes. So please do go and say hi. Brooke has so many great resources free and paid that will help you start building impactful relationships with people. That's it for today's episode. Happy profit loving